So, Harry and I had one of those talks today that I never see coming. He was talking about different things they do at school and mentioned saying the pledge of allegiance. He asked me if I say the pledge of allegiance. And I said "no".
He asked me why and I explained that I pledge my allegiance to God and to Jesus. I explained that I also feel allegiance to the church and to our family. Then he asked me what "pledge" means. I explained that it meant promise, and that a pledge of allegiance is a promise to be loyal, to stand by the decisions of those who you pledge allegiance to. And that I can't make that promise to America. I don't hate America and I appreciate that I have freedoms as an American that others might not have, depending upon where they live. Still, in the end, I cannot promise my loyalty to my country the way I would to my wife or my son or my church or, especially, my God.
My not saying the pledge of allegiance is not an indictment on those that do so much as an effort to say what I mean. There are those whose allegiance the United States can count on and so it makes sense for them to say the pledge. But there are too may things that the United States cannot count on me for (including working in the military) for me to be able to say it and mean it.
This is one of those areas where I'm afraid to stand out and yet feel that I can't avoid it. It's a stand that I don't force on others, but one I must make myself. I do whatever I can not to be obnoxious about it or draw attention to it (other than the occasional blog), but I know that it still bothers people when they stand next to me at a ball game or event and I stand quiet next to them. And I don't like to bother people. But I can't see any way around it.
16 comments:
I feel like you...incredibly fortunate to live here in America. But, I can't in good conscience pledge allegiance to a country (and all nation-states have their problems) that has not always looked out for those who most need it. This is especially true when I know that my heart lies with God, family, and with Jesus who always seeks to show us how to love the other.
I don't always get it right...but at least I'm trying....
How old is Harry?
4
I was surprised to read this entry, but glad. Growing up in a US territory, I have no recollection of saying the pledge, and I was reeeally uncomfortable with it when I moved to the states for school. I finally decided just not to do it, for reasons similar to yours and some all my own, but it's one of those things people react strangely/strongly to, so I tend to be discreet about it...
glad to hear there are others who feel the same way.
Thank you for standing. Peace from up north on 35.
this is an interesting issue. i have similar feelings about the pledge and anthem, though i think i am even more concerned about those who swear allegiance to deities. in the case of our nation, i cannot swear fealty for similar reasons, yet i am tormented that in part i condone the devices when i exercise the freedoms. in any case, while nations have risen and fallen, i think far more lasting damage has been done under the idea of "god wills it". i have far more loathing for the latter. and if i had to choose one or the other to demonstrate publicly, i would take the former, for i think i cannot do enough to separate myself from religious zealotry in order to show in my actions that i know a different God. i think we have to be very careful about our language in this regard, if we are to reach a world that recoils at the thought of religious devotion, and all it has led to in the past, and will certainly lead to again.
...and yet you prosper and flourish on the backs of those who have, do and will Pledge their Allegiance.
Jana-
I assume we're talking about soldiers in that statement (if not, help me understand what you mean). I understand that complicates the debate, and I hope that I would have the consistency not to ask others to sacrifice for me in a way that I would be unwilling to sacrifice for them. If I refuse to join the military (and I would) I must accept what would come if everyone refused to. I don't want people to kill others on my behalf even if that means my own life is put in danger. And I know that the debate with that is "yes, but that still will and you reap the benefits of that security." That may be, and I wouldn't begin to know how to change it. What I do know is that if America can't count on my allegiance, I don't root for it in the Olympics (again, I don't root against it, but I don't find myself wanting Michael Phelps to win just because he's an American) and I don't assume it's on the right side of every global economy decision or war. That's what I assume it means to pledge my allegiance to America. And I can't. And I wouldn't think anyone who takes that pledge seriously would want me to say I do if I don't.
Rick-
I understand the dangers that come with the assumption that "God wills it" or "God is on our side", but that is why I swear allegiance to God and to Jesus over all else. It forces me to be on God's side and not to assume that He is on mine. If I swear allegiance to a country, it makes it easier for me to say that "God is on our side". If I swear allegiance to God, then there's no "our side" for God to be on. I simply have to submit to His will and His way.
Everyone-
I should be clear that this is not an attack on America, per se. I wouldn't pledge allegiance to Canada if I lived in Canada or to England if I lived in England. I think this is a question of citizenship. In the same way that I can't swear allegiance to two wives, I can't swear allegiance to two kingdoms or countries.
loud and clear. i suppose i was thinking more of how people who say such things are perceived as religiously zealous, or radical, and how being lumped in with such a crowd can be overcome when one is expressing allegiance. secondly, i meant to express how misguided i think extremism in any form is, whether political or ideological (where we agree on citizenry yet differ theologically i think), and perhaps even go so far as to say i have my doubts as to whether the will of God can or should be ascertained, and if so, if it is actually possible separate those who want to be on God's side, from those who think God is on theirs when it comes to the outcomes these separate ideologies lead to. Certainly there is a difference between these two in conception, and they should differ in outcome, I'm just saying they rarely do.
i think it's easy to get cynical about the "God with us" concept, but it's worse to give up on it. what i mean by it is that God promises His presence and that we must cling to that, even if it burns and breaks us. we must be strive to be with Him, to conform to His will. there are areas where His will is difficult to ascertain and we must tread humbly. there are others (love your enemies, care for "the least of these") where His will is all too clear and we must simply pray for the will to do it. that's what i mean by allegiance, bringing my will into conformity with His. which is why i cannot pledge allegiance to America (or any country) because I refuse to conform my will to that of any country.
I certainly don't profess to be as smart or witty as you and your readers, but I believe allegiance is more than military service. Simply by virtue of being born American (a winner of life's lottery, you might think) you are part of something unique. You may not pledge your allegiance, but you've benefited. Did you use student loans for college? Do you have withholding from your paycheck to pay into social security and medicaid? Do you enjoy federal, state, and municipal services like public parks, mail service, even the DMV? Allegiance is a tall order. I would say that your allegiance is only to those things which make you feel good and suit your needs. Jesus said to render unto Caesar...I believe that is a call to submission and humility and allegiance.
I don't think anyone's trying to be witty, just honest. I don't think anyone has made an attack on you and I hope you won't on us.
The giving to Caesar what is Caesar's is exactly what I am trying to do. Jesus is talking about living under the government you've been given. Obey the speed limit. Pay your taxes. Obey to the point that it doesn't conflict with obedience to God. However, He follows it with "and to God what is God's". I give Caesar my taxes. I give God my allegiance.
I don't believe the two are mutually exclusive. At any rate, the debate is moot. You're right and I'm right, neither of us will budge. I will say, however, that this is the greatest strength of MY allegiance to America, that you and I may engage in disagreement without either of us winding up in jail or murdered for differences in thought.
I agree that one of the great freedoms in America is that we can have this conversation and agree to disagree. Again, my lack of allegiance to America isn't based on a dislike of it. There are lots of great women out there, but only one I give my allegiance to. It's simply that I see this as a matter of citizenship. Being a citizen of the Kingdom, I cannot give allegiance to any other country.
I appreciate you making me think about this. You raise good questions and good points. Thank you.
Werd! I've had this conversation many a time. And it always ends up like this one. But I'm never as polite about it as you are. You keep teaching me man! :-)
I just came from the HUGE Obama rally in Philadelphia that featured an awesome acoustic performance by Springsteen and I thought you would like to know that he played "Does This Bus Stop at 82nd Street?" as part of a 45-minute set well conceived for the occasion. The whole set: The Promised Land, The Ghost of Tom Joad, Thunder Road, No Surrender, Does This Bus Stop at 82nd Street?, The Rising, and last but not least This Land is Your Land. It was stellar!
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